BC Club forum boards => General Chat and Ideas => Topic started by: Steve G. on December 01, 2023, 03:21:40 PM



Title: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 01, 2023, 03:21:40 PM


  The bike.  2022 Royal Enfield Himalayan. 441cc  EFI.  The perfect fit for a family member for his 6 miles commute to work, 7.5 months a year. New price $4450.
  Early issue turned out to be faulty handlebar  kill switch.
  After the first dealership oil change and check over,  the bike began burning oil on cold startups, 2-3 minutes of considerable white smoke. The dealership noticed this when they were installing the new kill switch. They put a  ‘boroscope ’ camera inside the spark plug hole, revealing cylinder wall carnage, severe pitting they said. Now it’s gone from a bad kill switch to  complete engine removal and head/cylinder removal, with possible complete new engine  under warranty. Certainly new piston and cylinder.
  Luckily it’s winter time!!!

  What would cause such carnage? Broken ring?


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: hardrockminer on December 01, 2023, 04:00:24 PM
If the cylinder wall is scored one can guess it's a broken ring, or perhaps a piece of a valve, or even a piece of the piston.  The engine has to come apart for a definite post mortum.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 01, 2023, 06:06:05 PM
  They said it’s coming apart. Strange, it did not lose power output  when it started smoking. And, after it was warmed up, it stopped smoking.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Twisted_Twin on December 01, 2023, 06:25:10 PM
Better hope the service adviser isn't the guy who used to work for Pacific Motosports


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Galactica on December 01, 2023, 06:40:22 PM
Strange, it did not lose power output  when it started smoking. And, after it was warmed up, it stopped smoking.
[/quote]

Didn’t loose power?  It’s an Enfield.  How would you tell the difference? 


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 01, 2023, 06:43:13 PM
  Good point Ross, it’s not a powerful engine at all.
  The dealer, International, does not inspire confidence  in me. A complete new engine perhaps.
 At least RE has a 3 yr lunlimited guarantee.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Twisted_Twin on December 01, 2023, 07:05:58 PM
  Good point Ross, it’s not a powerful engine at all.
  The dealer, International, does not inspire confidence  in me. A complete new engine perhaps.
 At least RE has a 3 yr lunlimited guarantee.

I'm curious to see how this plays out.

I think they make some good looking bikes and you don't need goofy horsepower to have a lot of fun. If the warranty support is good, that's a lot of bike for $4500


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 01, 2023, 08:38:20 PM
  Good point Ross, it’s not a powerful engine at all.
  The dealer, International, does not inspire confidence  in me. A complete new engine perhaps.
 At least RE has a 3 yr lunlimited guarantee.

I'm curious to see how this plays out.

I think they make some good looking bikes and you don't need goofy horsepower to have a lot of fun. If the warranty support is good, that's a lot of bike for $4500



  I much prefer the 650 twin. It really is a bargain right now at $4999. Great engine.

  I’ll keep everyone updated on this. I’ve seen many Smokey engines, but it’s usually easy to guess the problem based on engine characteristics.   Not this one so far.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: hardrockminer on December 02, 2023, 05:28:18 AM
If you hadn't mentioned the cylinder scoring I would have first thought of valve seals.  Oil leaks through the seals into the combustion chamber when the bike isn't running and causes it to smoke on startup.  The smoke clears after a couple of minutes and the bike would run fine.

If the cylinders are scored I would guess there is a compression issue.  If the mechanic is anywhere near half deceent he would have done that first, along with a leakdown testt.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: rz5mark on December 02, 2023, 07:09:25 AM
Could it have inhaled something, debris from manufacturing ?


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 02, 2023, 09:41:46 AM
  It could have inhaled something. Heck, they have Friday and Monday bikes out of Italy, surely they have a Tuesday and Thursday bikes out of India??
  It only started smoking AFTER the dealer did the first service. Hmmmmm?


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Galactica on December 02, 2023, 11:36:53 AM
Like Bill says, hard to say until you do some basic things.  Valve clearance, compression test, leakdown test.  These three basic things should help narrow things down a bit.   Haven’t heard much to give confidence in International though.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 02, 2023, 06:18:18 PM
  I got out of dog sitting for an hour. Went to the shop service desk. They don’t want to talk about it.
 We shall see.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Twisted_Twin on December 03, 2023, 06:01:30 AM
You get a free can of mustache wax while you wait in the selfie area though.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 03, 2023, 07:19:15 AM
    Absolutely!   And hang out with my fellow “motordude bro’s”  with matching super tight jeans,  sipping  espresso matcha,  on the new chesterfield lounge they’ve just set up.
 Oh BTW, they are also the new Indian dealer, and CFMoto dealer, so you’ve got a chief sitting in the middle of 2 UTV’s.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 05, 2023, 05:40:01 PM


  I've got pics of the engine issue today. A section of the steel cylinder liner along the top has broken off, perhaps 3-4mm x 40mm , and has tangled around the cylinder causing inconsistent damage around the cylinder walls. Leakdown tests showed no problem,,,,yet. Warranty replacement new piston, rings, cylinder, valves, seals,,,,,,I would think any component that had to deal with errant metal bits tumbling around the combustion chamber.

  Crazy. Never seen anything like it.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: rz5mark on December 05, 2023, 06:22:43 PM
That is a weird one...?


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: hardrockminer on December 05, 2023, 07:21:51 PM
They will likely replace the liner and rings.  Possibly the piston if it has any damage.  It certainly is a strange one.  Was the head part of the combustion chamber damaged?  Valves were OK?


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 05, 2023, 07:35:59 PM
  Had a chat with Shawn, he recognized it right away as Chrome plated cylinder walls, as Moto Guzzi did decades ago. I’ve done some digging and yes, RE uses chromium plated cylinders. Works well if plating is done correctly, but flakes off when done incorrectly.
   Mystery solved.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 06, 2023, 07:37:28 PM


  My assumption that RE uses chrome plating on
The 441 cc single may be inaccurate, consensus at Wednesday coffee is that the missing chunk of metal is too thick to be plating.  Defective  steel liner is the word. Either way, it’s clearly a warranty covered defective part.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Steve G. on December 09, 2023, 11:39:52 AM


  Stopped by the RE dealer Friday. They brought the faulty cylinder out  for me to Look at and take pictures of (which I spent 2 hrs unsuccessfully trying to put on this format). The compromised steel liner is well above the uppermost ring travel. And  almost the entire  sleeve appears to be peeling away from the aluminium cylinder. It’s at least 1mm thick, and goes from 2-6 mm deep into the cylinder and averages 40mm in one section up to 100mm (3.5”)  along one stretch.  There’s clear evidence that you can feel with a fingernail of the errant metal entering the combustion chamber during operation, and causing damage to the cylinder walls . I’m slightly concerned about what this may do to the catalytic converter, not its effectiveness, but whether it will cause errant messages to the EFI computer via the sensor on the exhaust header.
   It is a complete manufacturing failure. They’ve not seen anything like it, but they’ve only been  a dealer for a year or so. Shail has never seen anything like it during his 23 yrs as a dealer.
  They are ordering a long list of new parts  at this point.


Title: Re: New Motorcycle Issues
Post by: Twisted_Twin on December 09, 2023, 04:55:27 PM
It will only show an issue if it has a post-cat 02 sensor (meaning there would be two sensors in the system).

The sensor before the cat is used by the ECU to monitor and adjust fueling.

The sensor after the cat tells the ECU if the cat is working or not, it doesn't do anything else.

Everyone calls it a computer but it's really more of a calculator. All it does is look for a set of given values and if it doesn't see what it's supposed to a certain number of times, it lights the light. As advanced as EFI is, it's still a pretty dumb system.

The post-cat 02 sensor can be fooled just by removing it from the pipe and letting it see clean air. That's how all guys with a Subaru WRX that shot flames and sounded like a lawnmower managed to pass Aircare testing.